The Demons ‘almost last episode of the year!’ with Nun 2, Barbarian, and Mad God. Will Box admit that Mad God is better than Sharkzilla?? Will Jim’s trend of actually watching the movies he reviews keep going?! Will anyone understand why the anal scene exists in Mad God? All this and more on the next Streamin Demons.
Note: Don’t miss our 69th episode where we go back in time with Box n Payne as they discuss Burning Angel horror porn! Ohhhh man..what a XXXmas treat that will be!
Also don’t forget to buy the sponsor book (we do get $$ if you buy) and leave reviews!
Transcript for Nun 2, Barbarian, and Mad God:
00:00.00
jim_phoenix
A he is right? We’re doing Streamman demons in this demon demons were doing none too Barbarian That’s not like none to us unt entitlled like none to Comma Barbarian Comma and my God all this a more now.
00:17.36
box
Mad God Not maga.
00:18.20
jim_phoenix
Hit it.
00:22.85
jim_phoenix
Magga Oh neither neither are both why? Why are they that hit my ear. No I didn’t sometimes my me.
00:24.46
box
Mad god.
00:40.44
jim_phoenix
Um, you know.
00:45.10
jim_phoenix
By the way I got Lou Frugno’s signature on theory mommmy dearest. Yeah yeah, yes, he does yes, he does and he he seems to like it is like you like like yeah.
00:49.47
box
I Saw that I saw that did he remember that movie. Oh did he have any stories.
01:04.65
jim_phoenix
I told him a truth I I told him that I gave it a star hire just because he was in it I don’t remember what my total score was I do remember I is like if there wasn’t for him I would yeah I pick up up to the 3 then yeah or maybe I bump it to 2 Yeah i.
01:12.63
box
I have an idea I think it was 2 I think it was 2 I think you might know.
01:24.00
jim_phoenix
Gave a ah bump for terror readers. Ah, even though ah she is like walk up and downtairs.
01:25.27
box
Yeah, well both of them are in it like 2 seconds and that’s it and then it’s all sweaty pianos.
01:35.88
jim_phoenix
Yes, I’m going to have Ter Reid sign it and then ah find someone who plays piano like not as necessarily the guy who actually in the acting and the character like just the guy who plays now. Yeah, just some some dude just some dude as as one does.
01:39.59
box
Yeah, yeah, just just just a guy who plays piano like a piano bar. Dude.
01:52.90
jim_phoenix
Now Welcome back Welcome back. We didn’t go to our echo to her. We didn’t go to our.
01:53.50
box
Welcome. It’s Thanksgiving ish.
02:02.57
jim_phoenix
Grandma’s cookie is washes cereal grandma’s cookies did not like Mama’s cookies I everyone life grandma’s cook.
02:07.36
box
Um, Ma’s car case. Oh my cat did not like that. Ah now.
02:17.72
jim_phoenix
Does dash who cares? No today unc screaming demons. We’re going to go through some away thanksgivings next I think Thanksgiving’s coming up and I does believe you guys me look for pornos to Thanksgiving so good look for that on this episode.
02:22.91
box
So is.
02:35.54
box
Ah, you’re welcome. You’re welcome. Everyone.
02:37.00
jim_phoenix
Yeah God blesses everyone because no one’s gonna ever subscribe so hit subscribe it like go follow our podcast. Thanks have oh wait. We still do it still? Yeah so welcome.
02:48.80
box
Yeah, but you can still do that while you’re listening you can still do it. Yeah leave a little review say you here it can yeah.
02:54.25
jim_phoenix
That shit ma just it press the button. It’s not that hard so the voices you hear you got Jim Phoenix hello hear Kat say hello yeah Jam Branockk myos and we talk about movies. We talk about streaming stuff. We talk about Tv shows. It’s all horror related.
03:05.60
box
Yes.
03:13.74
jim_phoenix
So all horror really and or Jason X Oh wait that was last. That’s not last episode so days we got the none too Barbarian and Mad God Mad God I Honestly God I don’t remember what.
03:15.28
box
Adjacent. Yes, ah.
03:31.34
jim_phoenix
That hell barbarians about is that that the old movie is like the 70 s really oh god sorry detro.
03:34.84
box
No, that’s oh no, no, that’s like something kind of new is actually set in Detroit too. Yeah I need to make a I need to make a list of all like the Detroit films like don’t breathe. Um.
03:50.80
jim_phoenix
It follows.
03:51.39
box
It follows and um and this now too barbarian.
03:56.12
jim_phoenix
X Barbarian is okay, what’s all right? What’s Barbarian who’s it with.
03:59.34
box
Day.
04:06.25
box
Who Okay, it’s with a scars guard. But I forget which scars guard got to look at a yeah, it’s It’s younger, it’s It’s younger scars guard. Um.
04:11.37
jim_phoenix
Okay, there’s 3 of them we could pick from it’s going to be older scars guard younger scars guard or a hot expert. So that’s a younger one is the guy from it Bill.
04:26.60
box
It’s bill scars guard Bill um, and then it has um Georgina Campbell and Justin long I forgot it has Justin Long internet yes and
04:29.88
jim_phoenix
Okay.
04:40.34
jim_phoenix
Justin Longs in this does he play a walrus I hope so that’ll be fucking tight.
04:45.52
box
No, he actually plays an asshole. He plays such an asshole and it’s so good and I’m really proud of him for coming back to Detroit to film because he had not had a good experience in Detroit um, people had allegedly according to him. Like kidnapped him for a while when he came to Detroit less so I um, they’re going to try to ransom him I think it’s now funny I feel. Ah yeah, who knows.
05:08.72
jim_phoenix
Um, and then what 1
05:12.54
jim_phoenix
Hey that’s not funny ransom him to whom Drew Barrymore in the time machine. Add some of them.
05:23.20
box
Who fucking knows but I do feel bad that that hat happened. But yep, this is um, 2022 So this was last year and um, it’s basically um, this girl and ah bill Scars guard. Ah, get rent the same house. Um, accidentally did you see this? oh.
05:43.66
jim_phoenix
Nice Oh shit, No maybe okay, let am I in the right track by say is the as a couple and then there’s a good dude that comes by after right or a girl.
06:01.48
box
Now. Well well, they’re not a couple they both book. Yeah, there are 2 people in the beginning. Um, it’s scars guard and ah campbell and basically.
06:02.75
jim_phoenix
Ah, girl no a feather is like 2 people. No.
06:14.10
jim_phoenix
Right.
06:16.79
box
They book the same house. She does it through Airbnb he does it through another booking agency and oh whoops big snafu and so he’s like well you know you might as well stay the night because it’s late at night and we’ll figure this out in the morning and. But the house has a dark secret to it and so and then Justin long comes later. It’s under.. There’s There’s a secret passageway under the house.
06:38.64
jim_phoenix
And there’s just them too. There’s no one else.
06:54.15
jim_phoenix
No.
06:54.19
box
Does that sound familiar. Ok then you might not have seen it but it is interesting because um, Zach Krieger who wrote and directed it. Um, it was kind of interesting because he had um. It’s it’s all about reading warnings and kind of like um trauma that comes into it and the ripple effects of abuse and so there’s some kind of.
07:32.29
jim_phoenix
Right.
07:32.40
box
Weird parts in it. It actually kind of reminded me of like x-files. There is this one x-files that I don’t want to say too much because then it’s kind of spoilery.
07:41.26
jim_phoenix
You’re gonna spoil Xfiles is the one where there’s an alien in it and a guy smoking a cigarette.
07:44.72
box
No, it’s where there’s an inbred family. Yeah, and so it’s kind of like that. But he said it was inspired by the nonfiction book the gift of fear and he said it’s like in a yeah.
07:48.51
jim_phoenix
Oh well, that kind there was no.
08:02.97
box
According to Wikipedia so but he cited a section that encouraged women to trust their intuition and not like ignore red flags and basically he started um writing a 30 page scene in which would incorporate as many as the red flags as possible.
08:19.73
jim_phoenix
A 30 page scene. Jesus.
08:21.56
box
And that’s how and that’s how it started coming to be so it’s It’s very interesting. It’s really interesting. Um, and it was not what I was thinking it was going to be I thought it was going to be I thought it was.
08:28.72
jim_phoenix
Um, that’s a long essay.
08:37.63
jim_phoenix
What do you think it was.
08:41.47
box
Going to be like a a haunted type horror movie. Um, not an actual like physical thing type horror movie. Um I wanted to actually spend I did like Justin long but I wanted to spend more time. With um, Campbell’s character because I thought she was really fascinating. Um, but it is kind of nice. Um Detroit is not the bad guy surprisingly um ah although you think it is going to be at some points because there’s a guy that’s like chasing after or saying lady come here, come here and you find out later he was trying to warn her.
09:04.70
jim_phoenix
Oh.
09:11.33
jim_phoenix
Um, right.
09:16.37
jim_phoenix
Come here come in.
09:17.54
box
So um, the trade isn’t the bad guy. It’s um, horrible people. Horrible people are bad guys.
09:26.61
jim_phoenix
Um, in Detroit there’s horrible people in Detroit so you you you have horrible people and you have someone renting.
09:32.15
box
There is but there’s also good people too like 1 of the people that was trying to save her.
09:43.81
jim_phoenix
Same place and you have confusion and crawl spaces and x-files and embreds and all this happens in Detroit that’s a big fucking and and there’s a 30 page scene.
09:52.59
box
In this movie. Yes.
10:00.97
box
Well, that’s that’s what he had started with that is what he had started with is just basically trying is well basically he was trying to incorporate how many especially for women or a fabs I should say um.
10:04.37
jim_phoenix
So we started for piece of shit and they went somewhere else. What.
10:18.43
box
The red flags that they get when they’re with other people so it’s like well like one of them is arriving to a strange place alone. Um, you know having a guy there like is that safe you know for you to stay with him.
10:21.18
jim_phoenix
What are they.
10:36.42
box
Um, because he’s a stranger and you don’t know him. There’s a part when he’s like oh I I have some wine I haven’t opened it. But do you want some wine and she’s like no thanks, you know, but later on that and she did have tea. She did have tea. She did have a.
10:45.36
jim_phoenix
I Got some tea when I come over for some tea see and then she like fuck I’m pieceing it out and the guys like what the fuck.
10:53.98
box
Um, and then yeah listen to our listen listen to our last episode. Um, but but eventually she does have the one because then she finds Out. You know a little more about them. But basically it’s all these like little red flag signs that. A febs have to go through every day to see if it’s safe or if it’s not safe. You know, um and a lot of gut intuition. Sure Yes, it is yes.
11:15.38
jim_phoenix
Is it? Okay I got 2 questions one is roller gaator or one the red flags because if not should be because like I guess wine and roller gator on Tv come on by oh fuck man.
11:28.89
box
And that that was the bad guy had roller gator playing on lub. Yeah yeah.
11:34.63
jim_phoenix
Um, loop. But you’re saying a fabs. So what’s the opposite Afa what’s like them I a maps no like that would be a map I wouldn’t he like the captain of the that’s a I at.
11:39.99
box
A mab. Yeah.
11:49.45
box
That’s Ahab you’re your’re your John x your gen x jokes are old. Ah, you’re old and you should feel old.
11:54.35
jim_phoenix
A ma a have a Fa my gen x wait until I start doing fuck man I’m gonna start doing my Gilbert Godfrey impression of Gilbert Godfrey doing an impression of ah the March brother the March brother.
12:07.40
box
Gilbert Godfrey oh god oh Karl marks that’s that’s a interesting to it car all sudden there.
12:13.48
jim_phoenix
Carl and I now like the funny I doing Karl Marks Karl mars brothers the Zeppo Carl groo arpo carl you know that 1 he played state.
12:27.10
box
He’s like we have to we have to we have to come together as a a comun know state and they’re like woopo bo actually that’s that’s that’s the 3 stooges but you get it.
12:36.50
jim_phoenix
These dos So but but okay, my question is you’re saying that a fabs have these right flags does that mean, no one else has your ref legs.
12:50.89
box
Um I think it’s it’s more um, geared towards a febs because there’s a lot more dangers. Um, why there’s a lot of predatory people and a lot of predatory men.
12:56.84
jim_phoenix
Why.
13:05.83
box
In fact I was just speaking today with somebody who um, a couple weeks ago didn’t come to 1 of our groups and I was like hey what’s going on and she’s like oh you know I was out at this club and some guy like tried to finger me and so I just wasn’t feeling like coming out for a while and I’m like ah par on.
13:21.77
jim_phoenix
Um, yes.
13:25.90
box
She’s like ah you know it it happens and it’s like you know and but again, but again it’s it’s like having to mitigate things like that and she’s like you know, ah it was hard because at first it was like well did i.
13:29.14
jim_phoenix
Yeah, it was Tuesday you know no Tuesdays right.
13:44.44
box
Did I stand out did I you know was I wearing something and it’s always like these things in the back of your mind but that’s always the Case. You can’t walk out. You know, dark alone. You know, um, a lot of times you’ll cross the street if there’s you know, a lot of people coming your Way. Ah. It is you know a lot of dangers that you have to look look out for and red Flags. You know, especially like in the dating world in you know and even in regular life I don’t I didn’t mean to like.
14:18.59
jim_phoenix
Okay, have you ever seen Eu for you right? Well the reason I ask and I don’t know the person is boy euphoria I don’t know the person’s name off offhand.
14:23.47
box
You know I haven’t I’m not that sad yet. Ah.
14:36.99
box
Zenaiah.
14:38.21
jim_phoenix
No zenaia the one that runs all the Wars not not her but it’s going to be God I Want to say Hunter shafffer. It could be someone else I don’t really know the serious all that well it’s been a while? no.
14:51.96
box
Is it Lou for igno. Oh.
14:56.45
jim_phoenix
But but it’s going to be someone who who plays because either theyre gonna be Sidney’s siney’s kind it’s gonna be that one? Ok, whatever it’ gonna be someone who’s playing a character who we don’t really. Know what gender and I’m using that and then like the the traditional term right? Not the sure I’m not the minutia is not going to grime me today.
15:20.50
box
Okay. A gender or sex.
15:32.60
box
It okay.
15:34.46
jim_phoenix
It’s going to be because it has it’s for the show euphoria. It’s someone who’s having a lot of the a fab red flags as you’re as are bringing up but they’re not.
15:40.81
box
Here.
15:53.34
box
So that their aabs transitioning to female. Okay, so that’s still a female experience I mean I say a fabs you’re right? You’re right.
15:53.68
jim_phoenix
But they’re not, There’s someone who’s transitioning. There’s someone. There’s someone who’s transitioning. Yes.
16:05.68
jim_phoenix
Um, but you’re saying a fab a a female signed that birth. So it’s not though.
16:10.40
box
You’re right I would say it’s an a fab and woman experience and you’re right like there is that um, splitting of hairs. But it’s true. Um, and I say a fabs too because even if you transition from female to Male. You’ll still have some of those experiences and those fears you know of of growing up in that because it was always like oh you know, make sure you don’t you know, get into the car with strangers because you’ll be raped and killed.
16:39.57
jim_phoenix
Right? Well they were told out to little boys too though like guys get the whole. No I don’t think any any parent says like all right? You motherfuckers any any stranger off as you can he just run good inside the car. Go for it.
16:44.36
box
You know and that’s.
16:58.79
jim_phoenix
Yeah, only get candy once in your life me know I mean you mean.
17:00.15
box
I Feel Yeah no and I do I think it’s more prevalent though with growing up as a female. It’s There’s much more. Yeah welcome. Yeah welcome to.
17:14.28
jim_phoenix
Um, welcome to welcome to a fab a macha where we get but this is good I appreciate it looks I don’t know the red flags without fall see him I like what’s whatever red flags because Red flags now.
17:19.49
box
Red flags and to ah to ah.
17:31.94
jim_phoenix
The kind of ah connotation for red flags now are things like oh he he likes ah black tea and it’s kind of like really that’s your red flag. He has a fit. He has a pitch of a fish on tinder. Ah we you we use red flags for different.
17:39.94
box
Well I think a lot of it too is well no, no no I.
17:51.68
jim_phoenix
Levels of sensitivity. So you’re talking about actual road flags of this can get you and filled danger rate. Yeah okay.
17:54.84
box
I’m I’m talking like like yes, like there’s sometimes yes like if if let’s say a bigger dude than me or something like that. Standing in between me and the door that’s immediately like a red flag like especially if he’s upset or something. It’s like oh you’ve just trapped me in here. There’s there’s you know I cannot leave or um, even so. Sometimes guys being too Nice. It’s like Okay, what is the purpose of this you know are you being nice or are you looking for something else. Um, you know things like that people coming and approaching you in a parking lot. You know and I have had that before and it was fine.
18:38.92
jim_phoenix
Um.
18:47.85
box
But it did raise my like Okay, what’s going on where where am I going to go if something goes down. Um.
18:53.62
jim_phoenix
Where do those come from box where do those red flags come from. Are you taught those but so society teach to do how I’m not okay so through.
19:01.66
box
Society. Yeah, you’re taught this through talking with other women um through um through yeah through I think identity like again like.
19:11.77
jim_phoenix
Reinforcement of identity or.
19:18.93
box
You’ll be at a slumber party and suddenly somebody is like spilling out their guts of like how they were at the library and somebody came up and was groping them and they were scared and they couldn’t say anything and you’re only twelve years old and what do you do you know? Um, you know. Or or things like that. Um mine was and I’ll go and mom’s probably going to like roller eyes but um Denna Seafort was the was the one for me because she was a little girl nope she was a little girl in in this area around my age at the time.
19:47.99
jim_phoenix
The woman on Star trek.
19:56.86
box
And she was at a slumber party and somebody came in in Kidnatcher and raped and killed her and dumped her body in a garb in a trash thing and at that time everybody is like no slumber parties for females. No slumber parties because this is what could happen to you guys.
20:13.45
jim_phoenix
So they.
20:15.30
box
You could just she was a female. She was a little girl just like you and so it was at the school. They still kind of don’t know honestly reading the case again, it’s kind of sketch like for the people that they they pinned it on because there wasn’t really a lot of evidence.
20:18.30
jim_phoenix
That came in through the window were how they.
20:34.47
box
But they think that they entered through either a window through the back door and um, she might have gotten up to go to the bathroom or something like that and and they nabbed her and they grabbed her and they took her out and nobody knew about it until the morning. Yeah.
20:47.40
jim_phoenix
So is wrong place wrong time.
20:51.35
box
Absolutely wrong place wrong time and um, but over here it was like all the schools were like you know, telling parents don’t have slumber parties. Don’t have people over you know that you don’t know. Um.
20:52.87
jim_phoenix
But.
21:07.79
box
And it was around my birthday too and my mom’s like I don’t think we can have a slumber party for you because of this and and I was only 6 I want to say so like 6 or 7 and so that kind of yeah that burned into my memory of just like oh.
21:11.86
jim_phoenix
Oh wow.
21:27.61
box
This happens to to little children like me, you know to a fabs like me and you know we were always taught like you know at the park you know if a guy approaches you you know you’ll run away and I remember during when I was over in that area too. There was. A guy that would approach kids afaps you know and and start talking to them and we were told like you can’t do that you know like same with um there was a seven eleven where a guy was flashing um afas too and they said you know you want to stay away from that seven eleven so it’s like.
22:06.92
box
To make you feel safer. You’re limited. You know you’re limited in your choices and your options. But what’s you know as a six year old as a twelve year old that’s true who’s
22:14.99
jim_phoenix
Wouldn’t you get a gun. Yeah, six year old in America son sure to have your own fucking guns. You have your own line of guns at that point.
22:26.50
box
I mean I I had my own bebe gun so that was kind of cool, but but I had a big dog. Thankfully I had a big dog and so I think there was a couple times where there’d be strangers walking up and my talk would bark and they would leave so.
22:29.23
jim_phoenix
16 pumps.
22:42.54
jim_phoenix
Okay, so those are the red flags and you’re saying they’re societal reinforce meaning not just society itself. But you’re getting personal experiences that from that end of society being reinforced like oh this guy is an asshole because we see this versus. Ah, whisper of ah rumor that type of reinforcement. Okay.
23:03.63
box
Yeah, yeah I would say that and and also um, yeah yeah I would say it kind of comes at you at all sides you know because then there’s always those special episodes too and you know, um.
23:17.28
jim_phoenix
For they team up.
23:19.50
box
It’s reinforced by media. Well you know like those special episodes of like you know I don’t know full house or something like that where it’s like oh don’t yeah yeah, those kind of things.
23:28.95
jim_phoenix
All right New Stranger danger and all full house was a bunch of girls I think like little girls The twins were were twins.
23:38.22
box
Yeah yep, until later on then then they had the twins. But yeah, it was all girls. Oh no, yeah yeah, yeah, no I’m talking about the twin boys later on Yes, they did. Yeah.
23:44.47
jim_phoenix
Well, the twins are still girls too. The Olson twins.
23:53.64
jim_phoenix
Um, but they had twin boys later on what the wilson to Jesus man that’s too much. Gotta to get a better fucking house fuck a boat thing get a bigger house. Okay, so this movie barbarian has a lot of flags and she.
23:57.92
box
And they off lived in that house.
24:04.73
box
Ah, ah.
24:09.88
jim_phoenix
Dismisses them.
24:12.22
box
In the beginning. Um, she does and actually and I’ll I’ll say this because it’s very very in the beginning. Um scars guard is an okay guy. He’s he’s not the one that you know, um, but it’s Jason the funny thing.
24:22.95
jim_phoenix
Fucking Walrus fucking walrues.
24:30.22
box
Jason Long Plays a very unsympathetic character in this and he plays him really well because you hate the character. You know he’s like I’m a good guy I’m a good guy but then he’s an actor who um, there’s allegations of sexual assaults and like throughout this story. You know you start to hear.
24:35.63
jim_phoenix
Earth.
24:49.23
box
His pieces of the story and then it gets a little bit less believable and less believable over time. It’s Justin Lu sorry just alone. Okay, okay.
24:54.65
jim_phoenix
Wait a minute you’re doing Jason long now and you did Louise Guzman ah Jason ah Mc Justson my be I think I said Jason by missing and you did louise last time. Are you just going through like waiting. And seeing who’s in horror movies if not cast if if Dan Cook fucking pops up somewhere a disappointed. He’s a piece of shit. But that’s not even allegedly, he’s a joke thief fuck him and b is is rinal reynolds going to pop up because this you’re doing like the cast a waiting for the last couple weeks.
25:20.99
box
Yeah I heard that.
25:29.69
box
Oh am I well we we only brushed on like Louise Guzman but um I mean I could I could do Ryan Reynolds he was in um, an em Mindyville horror. He was yeah yep.
25:30.81
jim_phoenix
Yeah.
25:37.71
jim_phoenix
Um I could do right on? Oh he was. That’s right, He did the remake of it. Yes, yeah, and whatever that that fucking ring. He’s also in the ring.
25:46.99
box
He sure did so we could. Was he.
25:54.42
jim_phoenix
Or the green latin it was a really horror shitty movie but ring. That’s all remember it was a green latern okay am I bad I am I remember it was a fucking horror movie that’s fucking paid money for that. You know only sixteen bucks
25:57.50
box
I think it was green lantern and I don’t think it was horror. It was not horror. Yeah no I the only I mean I’m sure he’s. And other horror movies. But the one that I remember him in the most was the Amyiville horror. Yeah, so.
26:14.20
jim_phoenix
Um, ad of of horror. Yeah, based on true story sort of all right? So We we have our Veryian you’ve got some flags going On. You have to ignoring of flags going On. You have just a long straight off of getting this walrus. Tucks removed and you start killing people immediately apparently is this is this cgi is it just all no Ro effect at all bar accident practically no effects at all.
26:30.61
box
And.
26:39.32
box
No, it’s practical. It’s practical. It’s practical effects Honestly I’ve been so spoiled recently all the movies I’ve seen have practical effects and I’ve been just loving it to pieces. Um.
26:46.24
jim_phoenix
Mean.
26:54.21
jim_phoenix
Including the last you’re talking about today including in the last movie we’re talking about today mad god yeah.
26:56.53
box
Huh yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah so practical effects. Um, there isn’t a lot of gore in it. Um, but it is a scary movie. And there’s a lot of tension in it and there’s a lot of um I just like I said there’s themes in it. There’s um, things like that and like I said it’s at the heart of Detroit and.
27:17.11
jim_phoenix
Um.
27:33.57
box
I Think that’s part of it too. Is you know because she’s staying in this airbnb and people are like oh that’s that’s not a good part. You know that’s dangerous and you should yeah and um, it’s really not the the neighborhood itself. It’s it’s the remnant of.
27:39.40
jim_phoenix
For they know.
27:51.39
box
1 of those red flags like a red flag. Dude you know like a gross gross dude.
27:52.75
jim_phoenix
I.
27:59.49
jim_phoenix
Ro Jeremys in this movie. Ah okay grosser. Okay, no sport. What would you give it? What would you give right? as a rating.
28:04.38
box
I’m not going to spoil it I’m not going to spoil it? Ah okay I wanted to like it more I will be honest, um it What like I said it wasn’t what I was expecting it to.
28:12.59
jim_phoenix
Move.
28:18.98
box
Be and so keep that with in it I think people will enjoy it if you like um, that kind of like more of a ah thoughtful kind of story. Um, but I guess and I wanted it to be haunted house.
28:30.80
jim_phoenix
Right.
28:36.71
box
Um, so I’m going to give it a three point seven five um because I don’t think it was enough to be a 4 but again it was very the music was great. Um I wanted I wanted more blood I guess and Mor Gore
28:37.37
jim_phoenix
Um, um oh where that some vibe gets off not quite a 4
28:55.71
box
Um, but it was it was very sympathetic in some ways that I wasn’t expecting. They had more heart and brain to it than what I was expecting so um, Campbell did a great job I loved her I wanted to see more of her character and and who she was and i.
29:06.79
jim_phoenix
Hatch and brains and like that.
29:14.37
box
I Think maybe that’s why I’m giving it a lower score because I wanted to explore that a little more.
29:18.18
jim_phoenix
Awesome! 3 7 5 is not bad. It’s not bad I mean it’s is gonna beat the crap out my score for my next move I know that.
29:22.89
box
No no, it’s a good movie. Oh no, you didn’t like the none to did you watch that at first one I did a review on the first one on the on the the website. Yes i.
29:33.24
jim_phoenix
None too Much. No not at all. Yeah wasn’t very interesting either. Did you did you like it.
29:49.43
box
I said yeah I did but as like a haunted house like as a place where you you go in and it’s like boo got you, you know like that was basically what if you look at it from that perspective. It was fun I mean it’s not going to like.
29:55.80
jim_phoenix
Um, yeah.
30:05.22
box
Tell me the meaning of life or anything but it was a good popcorn movie.
30:07.48
jim_phoenix
Yeah Well’ll put this way if you kind of like none as a popcorre movie. You take all the exciting and elements have none remove them all forced feed a person of color because apparently that was a fucking criticism of other movies too white.
30:14.33
box
Oh.
30:25.28
box
I Mean it’s true.
30:26.65
jim_phoenix
And you got none too. Yeah, well yeah I mean it was also what a 1500 like what the fuck you want I don’t know if it was boring. It didn’t it was a true sequel to a point and they’re trying to do that like the conjuring.
30:41.60
box
Ah, that’s it.
30:46.36
jim_phoenix
The condering universe so they’re trying to do that bullshit and they’re really force feeding at the end there is a there’s a small scene at the you know after at their credits like the fucking Marvel movie not as interesting as any of the Marvel movie ones but they they try to shoeh hor and and it’s put this way. Hu.
30:46.41
box
Oh yeah.
31:06.40
jim_phoenix
The demons back again are some shit I don’t know they going through fucking orphanages and nunneries and burst of priestcent of fire. That’s how it starts out and there’s a lineage of some nun. Oh you’re actually a a famous nun lineage. Ah, that’s that’s why you can do shit or something like that. Ah yeah, well Muppet babies only and so you they come from somewhere though like the as a famous like Martyr or some show like that like oh my mom’s and she’s.
31:26.22
box
Ah I thought Nuns didn’t have babies.
31:42.42
jim_phoenix
Flash rest for her mom the entire fucking film base. Basically it was like the great grandmother shit. But yeah, yeah I will sum this up right here. The thing that kills the bad guy.
31:43.90
box
Um, the Mom’s a martyr. So.
31:59.21
jim_phoenix
Or banishes the bad guy or whatever the fuck spoil or there’s a bad guy in it and it’s a conjuring movie as old good has to win for half minute it’s liquid I v they they they they they use liquid I v if you go to liquid av.com use pro code haunted 100
31:59.76
box
Ah.
32:12.80
box
Ah, oh.
32:18.73
jim_phoenix
20% off anything for ah, fucking that kill demons with I don’t know maybe that’s what the pitch fucking flavor is kills demons. That’s what it is but it’s it’s formulaic as fuck and that in a good way. It’s just like ah.
32:25.26
box
Maybe.
32:31.60
box
Now I mean.
32:36.49
jim_phoenix
Ah, took me two days to watch it. Um I haven been really really tired when I started watching it yesterday but a put this way I know someone who is watching I think they said like the third twilight movie and I was watching none too.
32:36.49
box
Who no.
32:56.10
jim_phoenix
And I was jealous of their fucking movie like oh man I wish I could be watching twilight three could have done that instead. Oh yeah, well you can do all the twilight.
32:56.19
box
Yeah.
33:01.71
box
I watched twilight one this year I need to watch Twilight two and three I guess I would I’ll watch that instead of the none too.
33:12.65
jim_phoenix
Fuck my as well man I’m so glad I didn’t pay money for that I have like a seven day free trial and paramount. Yeah, and I got to see how razor again the remike of hell razor not that great by the way earlier.
33:17.96
box
They.
33:26.75
box
And why are we remaking good things. Let’s remake bad things.
33:30.96
jim_phoenix
Well, that’s the thing. Well I Can’t wait for the remike of none too then hope that comes soon I do want to see the ending of none too which will be like the Endd Loraine Story. The warrens come back? Oh they killed a nun but I don’t. Really get a sense of Urgency. There’s no,, There’s no takeaway. There’s There’s no oh my gosh. Oh My God It’s bad thing’s gonna happen because timewise the none and the none too happen years before we see conjuring.
34:07.38
box
He.
34:09.28
jim_phoenix
Like timewise we already know what happens because the Motherfu nuns in the country. So therefore E go Motherfu nothing fucking happens that a fucking numb Demon You know why because we seen the fucking numbdenium in the future then is is that as a it’s a Star Wars movie all over again.
34:20.38
box
Um, yeah.
34:28.24
jim_phoenix
Like oh I go we know these fuckers die how we saw new hope thirty years ago we know they all die they line in a movie.
34:35.90
box
Yeah, but I kind of liked that I kind of liked it because it was like it shows you their story I liked that one? Yeah yeah, oh okay.
34:44.20
jim_phoenix
Okay, the difference is that was good writing good acting good directing none to at any of that shit it just miss and a miss and is like ah the little boy saw a priest on fires. Let’s steal from the priest that just hunt on fire or some shit and. Oh that that guy we can’t really remember from the nu one. He’s back, but you also saw him back through the ed in the rain thing I don’t fucking know and then like oh that none is back but the other priest has gones but couldn’t afford him so he’s just dies or he’s I don’t know fucking. Cytheria where it fucking dies from and then they take her seriously they don’t take her seriously there’s mother Teresa there’s a nun. There’s another nuns is a lot of fucking nunneries. That’s that’s all we have none reason shit like that.
35:29.58
box
It sounds like a lot of nuns. Do they ever have like a sing battle or like go and clean up like inner City graffiti like looks sister act.
35:37.33
jim_phoenix
Not one of them.
35:44.54
jim_phoenix
Ah, that would been more interesting if this was sister act 4 in the conringing universe I would watch a shit out of that one I would see whi a goldberg as mother superior that kick some as.
35:54.19
box
Oh my God that would be so fucking funny like and and then the nun is rapping because the nun has to rap and then doing like but doing some like that one move and like break dancing where they’re on their back and spinning like.
36:03.87
jim_phoenix
Roller Gator That’s the speaker. Yeah.
36:13.18
jim_phoenix
Spare Spinner roonedy. Yeah, if if any of that should happen a it was parts bad parts tone deaf as fuck. They put a black woman in chain like really.
36:13.52
box
There’s always that yeah spinner ruining it would be amazing.
36:29.24
box
Oof O That’s that’s no good now. They don’t not if.
36:29.25
jim_phoenix
That’s the person you chained across her neck. The black woman. Thanks yeah, I’m like oh that they didn’t think that one through or maybe they did they just find that fucking catchphrase on it I don’t know but ah and there’s no reason for the new none at All. It’s the street wise Nun. She’s I think this one? No Honestly I think this one from Detroit They have one none I could be wrong again. I Watched over two days I could be wrong I think she starts off as a.
36:49.60
box
Yeah, oh my god does the nun take Manhattan too.
36:59.80
box
Are you kidding me.
37:07.61
jim_phoenix
Person from Detroit that I think I will let you guess the color that none. Yeah, it’s rolled as fuck.
37:08.60
box
Just stay in Detroit and.
37:15.24
box
To be to be fair. We have a thriving African-american and Black community over here which is amazing to apparently all want to be nones in Italy I mean look.
37:23.79
jim_phoenix
Who all want to be nuns apparently in italy or some shit ships are out to italys I’m right or France or place get in the van. We got some candy for you.
37:34.76
box
Look if somebody says hey do you want to come to Italy you go because there’s because there’s Italian food. It’s delicious I would go I would go.
37:43.76
jim_phoenix
Yeah, no save save yourself some time. Skip the none to I’m not even it’s probably Cgi I don’t think any proto effects except for like contact lenses. Maybe but it’s it’s not interesting. There’s no fucking scare.
37:51.78
box
Ah, now probably not. Yeah so so what do you give it.
38:03.12
jim_phoenix
Fucking to I give we get 2 because at least it’s it’s not kind hannibal I’ll say hannibal holocaust cannibal. It’s not cannibal holocasst. It’s not the shittiest move ever watched like it’s this out of 5 like it’s it’s a d minus.
38:08.92
box
Rolligator.
38:18.63
box
Yeah.
38:21.62
jim_phoenix
It this a solid D minus. There’s there’s no redeeming qualities that are like Yay It’s like it’s girl power sort of for not really and then at some point you just there’s a mcguffin in it. Yeah.
38:34.94
box
Um, well the first one was girl power. Yeah, there’s always a mcguffin in these kind of movies.
38:41.90
jim_phoenix
Yeah, the the it wasn’t that interesting. It was like ah the whatever I’m giving us a to. That’s my final answer but we know what we got Mag God a movie So horrifying we both watched it.
38:50.40
box
Okay.
38:59.97
jim_phoenix
And it was when did you watch it when did you watch it.
39:01.69
box
Phil Tippet okay I actually spoilers I actually watch it as a screener for um, the other website that I write for sometimes yes.
39:15.20
jim_phoenix
Um, no good for you.
39:18.17
box
And so they offered the screener I like Phil Tippet I’m like I’m in and blue what a wild ride? What a wild ride.
39:28.59
jim_phoenix
Yeah, for those who don’t know Philip. It does a bunch of practical effects for almost every movie you ever liked and including now there climate asians star wars the.
39:35.95
box
Claimmation Robocop including rogue star wars robocop um I mean he’s he’s like 1 of the.
39:44.58
jim_phoenix
Did Jurassic Park which was a little bit of mix and he’s like.
39:53.17
box
The biggest names in in special effects. Um, and this was his baby project. This was his baby for yeah for like I thought it’s 22 thirty years well you know, give or take so it’s been.
39:59.70
jim_phoenix
30 years I said to I thought 20 as well I said 20 before and then the trailer says thirty on it. Yeah.
40:13.17
box
I mean this baby is old. This baby has a 4 ah one k he’s been working on this? Yeah yeah, use that at I and use that I did um, but um, so it has been.
40:15.84
jim_phoenix
This baby is too old for Jim to date bad that son I don’t know I yeah think the world is thinking it. So.
40:32.59
box
A long time in the making and it is I think you have to be in a certain frame of mind to watch it. Um, it is experimental.
40:48.20
jim_phoenix
Yes.
40:52.45
box
It’s very experimental. You don’t There’s really not a lot of dialogue in it. Um, you really don’t know kind of what’s going on through a lot of it. There’s dialogue at the end with the guy when he yeah at the very end.
41:03.77
jim_phoenix
There’s dialogue. There’s not like 2 words in it I think right? then? okay.
41:11.96
box
But it’s very minimal very minimal. Um, and it’s basically this Assassin comes down from the clouds onto Earth which is now completely a hellscape.
41:12.00
jim_phoenix
Um, yeah.
41:22.97
jim_phoenix
The housecape. Yeah, Detroit.
41:28.90
box
A hellscape of tortured fuck off fuck off um basically of tortured souls. Um, there’s so much sadism and and horrific things you so.
41:34.91
jim_phoenix
Ah.
41:46.85
box
He sees such horrific things and you see such horrific things and um and it’s basically trying to destroy that world and does he is he able to accomplish it. Um, as I said.
41:47.70
jim_phoenix
Right.
42:01.42
jim_phoenix
And there’s anal. That’s the parents I want me remind you of anal. Well you see when the parents guide to buy Umbbs head or both don’t matter.
42:05.78
box
I don’t remember the anal you got to remind me of the anal. Yeah, when ah, a mommy or a daddy. Yeah and um, Daddy and a daddy and a mommy and a mommy anyway.
42:20.22
jim_phoenix
Can be both same time that my mommy it’s all good. It’s ah it’s.
42:26.00
box
Um I don’t remember that I remember it eating something and then shitting it out.
42:30.00
jim_phoenix
Yeah, 1 thing there is devocation. But if you ever seen the wall anyone. Oh that’s gross. This is not your movie if you’ seen the wall going I can get higher then this is definitely your movie like all the wall’s not bad but I can get higher.
42:39.15
box
It it? Yeah, honestly, it’s It’s so much more visceral. It’s so visceral and because it’s clamation. Yeah.
42:48.67
jim_phoenix
Yes, well, there’s there’s no live animation. Yeah, that’s why that’s this what I want say there’s there’s no like the wall has a fleshsh and blood stops in between. They tell a story this is straight claymation for an hour and a half eighty five minutes is more that.
43:00.99
box
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s stray clamation and again, there’s really no dialogue. Um, and it’s a hellscape and you feel everything and you see everything.
43:14.37
jim_phoenix
Yes.
43:17.70
box
And it’s like you can smell it I mean like it’s It’s so visceral and beautiful though at the same time he puts so much artistry into it and so much talent and and creativity. These monsters are horrific.
43:25.92
jim_phoenix
Of amazing. Yes.
43:35.98
box
But at the same point in the beginning scene. This is one of my favorite scenes as the traveler is coming down and there’s these huge like fossils of like ammonites and you see just as little light coming down in these giant fossils. And you feel this It’s so immense and it’s so beautiful and it’s so beautifully done. Um, so again, it’s like 1 of those movies you have to be ready for you have to be like in that mood of like okay I’m going to see some fucked up shit but it’s going to be good.
44:06.38
jim_phoenix
Yeah, you’re gonna go for the ride. This is the one I watched with the last drive in and that’s why I think it was a second movie they did has been a while. So I honestly I think I saw it around 2 bit 2 a m and I’m not saying I was high.
44:13.70
box
Oh ok.
44:20.92
box
And.
44:26.18
jim_phoenix
By there. Some Jets did pass by like hey Jets oh guys doing it fit is is wire movies I Even think that and could be completely wrong. The last drive in people did say you might want to get really high for this it. It will help you.
44:42.48
box
I mean it could go either way if you’re the type that gets paranoid when you’re high. Do not do not This is drinking movie for me. Um, not a getting high movie.
44:48.36
jim_phoenix
Let ah.
44:51.10
jim_phoenix
Oh drink a movie. Okay I was doing both guys like I as my bets on this shit man I’ll do both I yeah.
44:56.36
box
Because I would they would freak me out. Yeah.
45:04.76
box
It’s It’s definitely a movie that is going to be very immersive. It’s going to be very immersive.
45:08.30
jim_phoenix
Yes, if if you’re one of the people who gets high and says I don’t know if I’m going to ship my pants or throw this water bottle at someone this ain’t your movie I think that was a quote from this week by the it was a pink concert.
45:18.69
box
No, that’s so funny. It is.
45:27.17
jim_phoenix
I Overheard that shit like oh my god.
45:30.60
box
But it’s true. But again it’s I think it’s one of those movies where um in the future we’re going to go and look back at it and be like Wow This was ahead of its time. It is.
45:43.84
jim_phoenix
It’s a fucking masterpiece man and so that’s the only way I can really just I mean obviously I already know what score will probably both good but it is an absolute not having a lay cramp right now is an absolute mass anymore. Could I be.
45:47.68
box
Absolutely.
45:57.84
box
You need more liquid I’ve eat. You’re too dehydrated.
46:00.58
jim_phoenix
I I need more ass flavor. No you know what liquid iy came out with Ru fees. They have like a melatonin tarine or what are the fuck is supposed to be like not taurine ah tar I don’t know the fucking thing is valerian.
46:16.58
box
Terrakata.
46:17.89
jim_phoenix
Something like that like put this a be but a drink makes it go to sleep Mike I’m pretty sure a fucking ruthie right? that you just this the flavor call pass out like oh fuck me man. Um.
46:24.57
box
Ah, look if it’s if it’s you doing it to yourself and consenting hey we’re all adults we need. We need to relax some nights sometimes you get a.
46:37.53
jim_phoenix
Even look of even liquid I be as me here’ my cramers cookie now I’m gonna try this shit out I’m actually gonna try that shut to out today and see if it actually works because I’m kind of hype up. Oh.
46:42.84
box
Liquid I v roof for yourself that are Bena drill. You should you should I can’t take melatonin because it triggers my migraines but you guys have fun. Ah no.
46:55.40
jim_phoenix
Have you tried tried taking creatine.
46:59.74
box
But I’m on a sleeping pill now. So it works not a non non-habit forming sleeping pill shut up I talk to doctors and they say these things.
47:00.15
jim_phoenix
Okay, every day. Yeah, sure just like my painkillers are not have it forming because whoever wants to be in pain The the. Yeah, the fucking said the trauma dot wasn’t have farback too but now look what I’s ah hey a kids know its but but a pill that it’s like pillow talk but different. No um, Okay, yeah, but are you sure are you sure that none.
47:19.47
box
And nurses and.
47:27.39
box
Hi Welcome back to pill talk ah the different and old.
47:38.11
jim_phoenix
Because I think the habits you just trying to get to sleep and then you therefore you start equating that with sleep and you must take it that gets of sleep. We that’s what non Oh I I don’t know what the melatonin of.
47:44.95
box
Well, you could do that with melatonin though you could you? you could associate melatonin with being I mean you could do that with anything.
47:54.81
jim_phoenix
My drug tolerance I I was a drug addict since I was like walking 7 So like I luck out surviving gen x by Joe Sheptic I don’t want he wrote a book about me but fuck it I guess he did.
48:01.24
box
Which you can read all about in Gen X So surviving Gen x.
48:13.58
box
Oh I mean it’s ah it’s It’s a book about the generation.
48:14.51
jim_phoenix
November Thirtieth on Amazon or or by pr people said definitely not a Christmas book is fun for hallowe not howe ah thanksgiving. Yes, you’re thanks giving thanks to Christ that here. Not him I think that’s the Thanksgiving one
48:21.90
box
No, no yeah.
48:31.91
box
Well I think you know you you get the mad God You get the Gen you know surviving Gen Xs you put them together I mean that’s you’re gonna have a wild chime. You’re gonna have a wild ride.
48:34.12
jim_phoenix
No, but Mad god.
48:42.54
jim_phoenix
Um, fuck. Yeah fucking go for it I do believe mad god is if I wonder what kind of soundtrack you could put to mad god. Like you know the wizard of oz with dark side of moon because that would probably fucking I make it full my god yeah I wish you get some fucking pink Floyd out and we’ll see which pink floy is like 85 minutes
48:59.67
box
Yeah, Ah, maybe that would be that’d be pretty the British show that would be pretty showll. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and see and go for it and create a new like rumor about that.
49:15.83
jim_phoenix
And just go for it Fuck that’s to vision Bell Probably yeah, that’s that’s okay, ah when you call in next time y’all call in tell us which Pink Floyd album you would did to mad God or none too.
49:32.60
box
Yeah I expect he would be funny too.
49:33.53
jim_phoenix
Don’t matter whatever maybe in the bar period It makes more like honest guy if you ever to watch none too liquid I V kills the fucking demon spoiler or not spoiler don’t know.
49:45.86
box
Well I mean I can I can imagine that and exercise and and Liquid ivy.
49:51.62
jim_phoenix
Or exercises I Guess yeah, it’s it’s jump jumping rope. Yeah so mad God Ecc Clayimation is intense. You do have to mentally prepare for it and I usually took mental proportion as like just get out of your mental state.
50:03.30
box
And her.
50:11.34
jim_phoenix
But you really need to be able to take a bunch of body horror. It’s gross at parts. It’s going to be intense in parts. It’s bloody shit piss come whatever it is it. It’s got it.
50:18.16
box
Um, yeah, yeah.
50:25.67
box
It’s it’s nihilism in 85 minutes it’s like just a full nihilistic ride and you have to I mean if you’re in that mood of just like fuck it. You know, like absolutely.
50:27.94
jim_phoenix
Um, no I think that’s it. Yeah.
50:41.47
box
This movie is great. But if you’re like oh I need puppies and Kittens it’s not the movie for that moment.
50:48.40
jim_phoenix
No, that there is all go to heaven or no strays. Oh motherfucker we got Swat strays yo stras oh wolf on that with Smith will ferre oh my god yeah yeah, by his dick. Ah.
50:54.74
box
I I’ve never seen it.
51:02.32
box
Wills Smith okay oh oh that movie that looked horrible. It looked horrible.
51:04.14
jim_phoenix
Gotta watch fucking strength the voice yeah is horrible baby Oh did you see the same tree previous I did because they talk about buying people’s dicks off. That’s all I need to hear.
51:17.27
box
Yeah, and I was like I’m like that’s early two thousand s humor I’m beyond that. Ah.
51:24.13
jim_phoenix
I did write a book. Sorry Joe wrote a book ah surviving John x which is early 90 s yout if you don’t mind so that’s like few thousands of advanced Britain or late night versus say Mys squares.
51:29.98
box
Oh oh my a apologize my apologies.
51:41.10
jim_phoenix
My chairsqueaking I’m not high I’m just tired my chairs. We condemn it. So if you’re missing my chair squeak from the buffy of the vampire podcast. It’s back now. Not the not the podcast my chairs week. So if you missed that Scar week but Mad god.
51:42.87
box
Yeah, we’re both tired.
51:51.16
box
I was it. Oh welcome now got yeah but Shutter has lots of great stuff.
52:00.00
jim_phoenix
I check it out. Honestly, it’s on shuter right now go to shutter.com put discount code. We don the discount code for that. So buy some could iy get discomuntical for that haunted 100 and then go to short dot com as you try to figure out their fucking sign on thing and.
52:08.60
box
We don’t we don’t but.
52:14.95
box
You know what we didn’t do. We didn’t get do cthul lose Mad God You can. You cannot say this mad god.
52:20.36
jim_phoenix
For what for mad dog for my God I mean our mad dog for the pity who is farm by God Hamburger a.
52:33.87
box
Mad god it sounds like you’re seeing Maga. Okay, so mad god I’m going to give it a 4.5
52:40.30
jim_phoenix
And be I’ll make the fuels you got. Yeah 4.5 I’m giving good five see I’m surprised because you gave that shitty as movie last time at 4.5 you think Jason x or Jason goes to hell is the same talent is mag. Not.
52:47.80
box
Okay I mean and I I think I think ok, ok, ok, ok, ok, okay, okay, okay, you’re right you’re right? You’re right? 5 you’re right you’re right you’re right ah I
52:59.83
jim_phoenix
There you go I know it could save you into that shit and where is why I remember about last time we just did it.
53:07.90
box
Think the only one. The only reason why I was not giving it that is because it was so viscer of I don’t know like it is very nihilistic. Yeah, and but yeah and I think at the.
53:16.40
jim_phoenix
Um, best you want it to be of that’s yes.
53:23.60
box
Time I didn’t realize that it was going to be so nihilistic and I was like but I think if I had known going into it like this is going to be a wild ride. It’s going to be dark. It’s going to be gross and you’re going to love it like if I had known that a little bit more. But.
53:39.40
jim_phoenix
Um, yeah.
53:42.83
box
Again, like he’s just he’s got so much creativity and it’s just just such a beautiful movie and gross. What? yeah.
53:47.90
jim_phoenix
Oh you know what? you saw it straight through on the screener I got to see it on the last drive in and Joe Bob Briggs interview is Phil and so I got my experience broken up in pieces.
54:03.15
box
Um, oh oh I think it I think you’re right? You’re absolutely right because I I watched it straight through I think that would.
54:07.80
jim_phoenix
Which might give me reprieves where you didn’t have Maybe that’s what it is. Yeah I think that would change I think that does change your experience. Yeah because like a machine out that that that that that versus pause. Okay.
54:20.80
box
Yeah I think so right right? because it’s a lot. Yeah because it’s a lot to get through so you might want to take like ah ah you know, Ah, let’s go to the lobby break. One of those called an admission.
54:25.65
jim_phoenix
Applause for Humanitarian reasons. Oh to some guest. Fucking walk take a walk somewhere miscon intermission intermission though. Absolutely fucking decompress from this. Yeah I.
54:39.00
box
Ah, no, not admission. What is it? What is it called intermission. Yeah taken take an intermission you know, watch some cat videos get some popcorn. Do you a press a little bit but it’s it’s worth it. It’s worth it. It’s so good. It’s beautiful.
54:53.18
jim_phoenix
Good. It’s eight five minutes is it’s okay, let me see 85 minutes pink lloyd album because I’m gonna try this. Ah.
55:07.10
box
Ah.
55:10.69
jim_phoenix
Um, um, im a see I um, ah, um, look at this I’m gonna see okay, let me see time official it 6 fine. So I want to try to see what pink Floyd album will match up best of mad god and I’ll see if I can do that as reprieable but I do want to see the whole thing start to finish. The end I without the Joel Bob breaks breaks because I think this going give me a different experience than I had before and maybe my score would change based upon not having break.
55:30.42
box
Um, yeah.
55:40.89
box
You know and I but I think ah I don’t know it’s It’s hard like it’s a lot coming at you. But I think it would be it would have been good if fed had taken a break but I I had just watched it straight through and so it it.
55:59.30
box
It is very in a way overwhelming. But again I’m not faulting it for that. That’s kind of part of the message I think um, but it’s going to be a talk piece. This is not a popcorn film. This is not Jason goes to hell.
56:02.12
jim_phoenix
Um, right.
56:11.76
jim_phoenix
Um, well no, no.
56:18.49
box
This is not a can’t be thing this is going to be 1 of those where you’re like okay I need to talk to somebody now and like talk to them about what I just saw.
56:22.85
jim_phoenix
Yeah, yeah, and if you like talking to people nothing likes talking to people more like liquid I V nighttime. That’s right, Are you tired of working out I’m staying awake are you tired of gonna do the rest of.
56:32.65
box
Of here.
56:39.80
box
Oh you’re not going to see the rest of it. Okay.
56:42.29
jim_phoenix
But now something something or could I be dot com hot to 100 promo code 20% off anything including ruiess now I don’t roofy play both that.
56:53.50
box
Um, they’re not proof fees. They’re self medicated Melatonin Drinky drs.
56:57.93
jim_phoenix
But yeah, honestly god you can’t I mean maybe you could, but you’re you’re not goingnna roof for no one on Melatonin sorry is the the mountain you have to fucking take is come may ob seenne. So if you want to chill out a bit.
57:04.63
box
No no.
57:14.20
jim_phoenix
Oo maybe I should chill out and go oh my god like mellow out with this liquid iv nighttime stuff and watch mad god to pink floyd the walls like 80 minutes long division bells like 66 minutes long unfortunately dark side’s only 40 dark size 42 minutes so you like.
57:29.70
box
Really, you could double that up.
57:32.84
jim_phoenix
Double that up. Maybe I maybe it’s per side. Yeah, it has to be like was your eyes is got be more than forty two months long maybe it’s like 1 side one side too. Oh that’s what it is ah okay yeah.
57:38.81
box
Yeah I know I think I think you started at a certain point while it’s already going. Yes I believe is the thing I haven’t done it because I have a life but.
57:50.53
jim_phoenix
But that’s how they do.
57:56.40
jim_phoenix
Fine. But if you want to try it out. Let us know how it is all of some more. What’s your plug box.
58:02.51
box
Okay, my plug I have a plug let me get the plug although I should have said this last week but I didn’t so that’s fine. Um I know I know I know I’m getting my plug right now. No, it’s not stop. It’s no, it’s.
58:12.91
jim_phoenix
Ah, is it look what I v that be cool. Is it surviving John next because that’ll be called to.
58:22.28
box
It’s called wicked wick sway company and you go to WWWDotBurnWicked so b u r n w I c k e d dot com and they have candles that.
58:37.30
jim_phoenix
Use promo calls paymenting demon spearing seamons is that is that the promoco guy Oh it. So so we don’t have a promo call first one. Oh man.
58:42.20
box
It’s shut up. No Shh I Know this is somebody new. This is somebody different. They make I don’t have a promo codede for this one but it is the holiday season and these are handmade candles with horror themes.
58:55.69
jim_phoenix
Who were nice.
59:00.42
box
I have summer slash in which is the Jason theme and it’s smells so good bloody mary smells so good. It does smell like good hit me but they have um you know some that are based on late. There’s an art the clown one. Um, there’s you know.
59:06.70
jim_phoenix
Smells like my hand smells like sewer oops.
59:17.80
jim_phoenix
Fuck does arctic clown smell like he’s like a bum it falls like a trash bag I don’t know which art to Clo movie. You’re watching but ron.
59:18.61
box
Things like based on it smells it smells like candy apples. Ah.
59:31.87
box
But um, I’ve gotten from them I love them their candles last a long time and they smell really good and of course like I said they’re into horror and um Christmas is coming up. So if you like somebody who likes. Smelling good around the house and also horror wicked wicks. Ah wait no, what’s it I say oh the cat’s trying to climb up on me I can’t the Cla is burn wicked dot com.
59:57.40
jim_phoenix
Dot com the clat that clap the cats trying to clamp up me.comburn wickedck burn burn wicked burn but bear it alive.
01:00:06.30
box
Be Wicked and it’s called Wicked Wix and the cat is now completely on me I’m a bird or help me help man that.
01:00:16.47
jim_phoenix
Better alive. Well that’s not a bad thing. You know what we do Im a promote this book surviving gen x by this Joe chef check guy. It’s not the way you think it’s spelled s u r v I v I n g.
01:00:26.52
box
Who Yeah, how do you spell it again. So people know.
01:00:34.75
jim_phoenix
Space ge and space x by J O Space S Z E W C Z Y a go check it out November thirtieth on Amazon you know what? this couldn’t be an ebook a hard back a paperback and audible coming soon. But.
01:00:40.60
box
Where can people find it.
01:00:51.83
box
Oh are you gonna read it hey goes just gonna read it. Oh god.
01:00:53.62
jim_phoenix
The preorder I believe yep, well yeah, Joe’s got me to read it. Get that great. My I used to I actually got me to read it Timbo as it was entire hey this my titano it’s gonna come out auto be a bit a. Long or time but pre-order it now on Kindle I read the Kindle version of it is not bad on Kindle for I mean really a book is it’s because it’s got graphic art and so male Kindle and graphic art. Don’t always go together but it’s not bad on Kindle awesome on paperback or hardback but check it out.
01:01:16.43
box
So okay.
01:01:24.67
box
Ah.
01:01:31.33
jim_phoenix
It’s already been banned by some churches so you know this shit got big. It’s apparently you don’t rape kids Oh wait I didn’t say the churches rape the kids I Just think what here’s a thing they were doing a Morality Morality clause like ah like.
01:01:33.79
box
Um, yeah.
01:01:40.89
box
Where’s my kazoo. Where’s my kazoo.
01:01:47.67
box
There we go.
01:01:50.57
jim_phoenix
Like does you mean the same church as like raping people thinks my book is unmoral really okay that makes sense rapes. Okay, apparently but my shit’s fine bad. It’s not their image.
01:01:55.94
box
Well again I asked you I said I said what? what’s branch what branch and you said Catholic and I said oh shit no they’re not going to let you do nothing I know Catholics I was.
01:02:13.60
jim_phoenix
Ah, yeah, know why we’ll see we’ll see but surviving join act. Go get it all right by half of myself Jim Phoenix and my gohost j m brennick a k a box humid.
01:02:15.84
box
Ah, catholic.
01:02:31.26
jim_phoenix
Bid you only shit next episode 69 happy Thanksgiving early or happy Thanksgiving late for 69 that’s our special thanksgiving episode where yeah, yeah, it’s porn. Oh first, skip that shit entirely.
01:02:33.92
box
Yeah.
01:02:44.36
box
Don’t watch him Mom don’t read. Don’t read it I mean listen, whatever don’t do anything. Yeah, delete it.
01:02:49.73
jim_phoenix
If it was here box and Dr Payne talk porno boy you can’t wait for the next episode special. We’ve working way up to this one 6 to 9 dude.
01:02:57.55
box
Yeah, 69 do do do do do deep Pa up pop up, but but But. Can I do cat.
01:03:10.43
jim_phoenix
I Others Yeah yeah, my fun.
What if ours weren’t the only reality? What if the past paths converged, if those moments that led to our current circumstances got tangled together with their alternates and we found ourselves caught up in the threads?
Marla returned home after the funeral and wake. She drew the key in the lock and opened the door slowly, the looming dread of coming back to an empty house finally sinking in. Everyone else had gone home with their loved ones. They had all said, “goodbye,” and moved along.
Her daughter Misty and son-in-law Joel had caught a flight to Springfield so he could be at work the next day for the big meeting. Her brother Darcy was on his way back to Montreal. Emmett and Ruth were at home next door, probably washing dishes from the big meal they had helped to provide afterward, seeing as their kitchen light was on. Marla remembered there being food but couldn’t recall what exactly as she hadn’t felt like eating. Sandwiches probably… she’d have to thank them later.
Marla had felt supported up until she turned the key in the lock after the services, but then the realization sank deep in her throat like acid reflux, hanging heavy on her heart – everyone else had other lives to return to except for her. She sighed and stepped through the threshold onto the outdated beige linoleum tile and the braided rag rug that stretched across it. She closed the door behind herself and sighed again. She wiped her shoes reflexively on the mat before just kicking them off to land in a haphazard heap in the entryway.
The still silence of the house enveloped her, its oppressive emptiness palpable – she could feel it on her skin, taste it on her tongue. It was bitter. She sighed and walked purposefully to the living room, the large rust-orange sofa waiting to greet her. She flopped into its empty embrace, dropping her purse at her side as she did so.
A familiar, husky voice greeted her from deeper within the large, empty house. “Where have you been?”
Marla looked up and glanced around. Her husband Frank was standing in the doorway to the kitchen, drying a bowl. Marla gasped, her hand shooting to her mouth. Her clutched appendage took on a life of its own, slowly relinquishing itself of her gaping jaw and extending a first finger to point at the specter.
“Frank?” she spoke hesitantly.
“Yeah,” the man replied, holding the now-dry bowl nestled in the faded blue-and-white-checkered kitchen towel in both hands. “Who else would you expect?”
“But you’re dead,” Marla spat, the words falling limply from her mouth of their own accord.
The 66-year old man looked around confusedly and turned to face Marla, his silver hair sparkling in the light from the kitchen, illuminated from behind like a halo. “What are you talking about? I’m just here washing up after lunch. You were gone so I made myself some soup. Where have you been?”
“No, I just got home from your funeral,” Marla spoke quietly. “You are dead. After the boating accident… You drowned. I went along to the hospital – they pronounced you dead on arrival.”
“I don’t know what you’re talking about,” Frank said. “What boating accident?”
“The sailboat… You were going to take me out,” Marla coughed, her brown eyes glossed over with tears.
“We don’t own a sailboat,” Frank said bluntly. “Sure, I’d thought about it – it seems like a cool retirement hobby – but it’s just too expensive. We’ve talked about this, we can’t afford it.”
Marla glanced out the bay window towards the driveway where the small sailboat sat on its trailer, its orange hull reminiscent of the Florida citrus industry, and also of the life jacket Frank should have been wearing when he’d been pulled under. Marla cringed and turned back toward the kitchen. She sighed and spoke again, “But the boat’s out front. The guys at the marina helped to bring it back… after you… drowned.”
Frank had retreated to the kitchen to put away the bowl. Marla followed. She stood in the doorway and studied the man intently. He was unmistakably her husband, there was no denying it even despite her having just witnessed his waxen lifeless body in the coffin at the wake before the burial, though this Frank was a slight bit more overweight than she remembered.
“Well, that’s not possible. Because I’m still here,” Frank grumbled. He turned to face her, his blue eyes edged with worry. “There now, it was probably just a dream. You knew I wanted a boat and your anxiety just formulated the worst-case scenario…”
“See for yourself,” Marla said, her voice lilting with every syllable.
Frank strode into the living room and stared out the bay window. The driveway was vacant save for some bits of Spanish moss strewn over the concrete from the neighboring live oak tree. He turned towards his wife.
“But there’s no boat,” he sighed. “You must have had a bad dream. Did you fall asleep in the car in the garage again?” Concern was written all over his face, deepening every crease and wrinkle. “Is that where you were? The garage?”
Marla glanced again at the boat, plain as day, and turned to face Frank. Her voice grew stubborn. “It’s right here. How can you miss it?” she said, pointing at the orange behemoth.
“Honey, there’s nothing there,” Frank exclaimed, exasperation creeping into his voice.
Marla huffed and strode to the entryway, gathering her shoes from where they waited in their haphazard heap alongside the braided rag run on the worn linoleum floor. She marched out the door as Frank took vigil in its open frame, still staring at her. She stomped out to the boat and slapped her hand on the fiberglass surface with a resounding smack. The boat was warm to the touch, having baked in the Florida sun. She turned back towards the front door.
“See!” she bellowed.
The door stood open, empty. No one was there, watching. Marla sighed again and walked back inside. The vacant house once again enveloped her in its oppressive emptiness. Frank was nowhere to be found.
So I guess it’s goodbye for now. Feel free to check out more of Jennifer Weigel’s work here on Haunted MTL or here on her website.
Today on Nightmarish Nature we’re gonna revisit The Blob and jiggle our way to terror. Why? ‘Cause we’re just jellies – looking at those gelatinous denizens of the deep, as well as some snot-like land-bound monstrosities, and wishing we could ooze on down for some snoozy booze schmoozing action. Or something.
Honestly, I don’t know what exactly it is that jellyfish and slime molds do but whatever it is they do it well, which is why they’re still around despite being among the more ancient organism templates still in common use.
Jellyfish are on the rise.
Yeah, yeah, some species like moon jellies will hang out in huge blooms near the surface feeding, but that’s not what I meant. Jellyfish populations are up. They’re honing in on the open over-fished ocean and making themselves at home. Again.
And, although this makes the sea turtles happy since jellies are a favorite food staple of theirs, not much else is excited about the development. Except for those fish that like to hide out inside of their bells, assuming they don’t accidentally get eaten hanging out in there. But that’s a risk you gotta take when you’re trying to escape predation by surrounding yourself in a bubble of danger that itself wants to eat you. Be eaten or be eaten. Oh, wait…
So what makes jellies so scary?
Jellyfish pack some mighty venom. Despite obvious differences in mobility, they are related to anemones and corals. But not the Man o’ War which looks similar but is actually a community of microorganisms that function together as a whole, not one creature. Not that it matters when you’re on the wrong end of a nematocyst, really. Because regardless what it’s attached to, that stings.
Box jellies are among the most venomous creatures in the world and can move of their own accord rather than just drifting about like many smaller jellyfish do. And even if they aren’t deadly, the venom from many jellyfish species will cause blisters and lesions that can take a long time to heal. So even if they do resemble free-floating plastic grocery bags, you’d do best to steer clear. Because those are some dangerous curves.
But what does this have to do with slime molds?
Absolutely nothing. I honestly don’t know enough about jellyfish or slime molds to devote the whole of a Nightmarish Nature segment to either, so they had to share. Essentially, this bit is what happened when I decided to toast a bagel before coming up with something to write about and spent a tad too much time in contemplation of my breakfast. I guess we’re lucky I didn’t have any cream cheese or clotted cream…
Oh, and also thinking about gelatinous cubes and oozes in the role-playing game sense – because those sort of seem like a weird hybrid between jellies and slime molds, as does The Blob. Any of those amoeba influenced creatures are horrific by their very nature – they don’t even need to be souped up, just ask anyone who’s had dysentery.
And one of the most interesting thing about slime molds is that they can take the shortest path to food even when confronted with very complex barriers. They are maze masterminds and would give the Minotaur more than a run for his money, especially if he had or was food. They have even proven capable of determining the most efficient paths for water lines or railways in metropolitan regions, which is kind of crazy when you really think about it. Check it out in Scientific American here. So, if we assume that this is essentially the model upon which The Blob was built, then it’s kind of a miracle anything got away. And slime molds are coming under closer scrutiny and study as alternative means of creating computer components are being explored.
Jellies are the Wave of the Future.
We are learning that there may be a myriad of uses for jellyfish from foodstuffs to cosmetic products as we rethink how we interact with them. They are even proving useful in cleaning up plastic pollution. I don’t know how I feel about the foodstuff angle for all that they’ve been a part of various recipes for a long time. From what I’ve seen of the jellyfish cookbook recipes, they just don’t look that appealing. But then again I hate boba with a passion, so I’m probably not the best candidate to consider the possibility.
So it seems that jellies are kind of the wave of the future as we find that they can help solve our problems. That’s pretty impressive for some brainless millions of years old critter condiments. Past – present – perpetuity! Who knows what else we’d have found if evolution hadn’t cleaned out the fridge every so often?
Feel free to check out more Nightmarish Nature here.
The second half of 2024 was a bit of slow for Doctor Who news. Ncuti Gatwa’s first season finished in June, and the Christmas special was months away. Comics and audio plays continued, and a Blu-Ray set of Season 25 was released – but that was all.
However, what was new and exciting was a spate of unofficial recreations of missing Doctor Who stories from the sixties. Re-animations of missing stories have occurred previously, both officially by the BBC and unofficially by fans. However, animation production time means it’s rare to have more than a few episodes a year. However within the space of six months, forty-four recreated episodes were released, with the promise of more to come.
The reason how so many stories have been released so quickly is artificial intelligence (AI). These reconstructions are Generative AI, funded by professional songwriter, film producer, and fan, Ian Levine. This decision to make Doctor Who AI Reconstructions, to put it mildly, has been controversial online.
But is it worth it, in order to having otherwise missing stories returned to us? I’ve examined many of these Doctor Who AI reconstructions, and the discourse around them, to find out.
In Brief – Missing Episodes
A decent proportion of Doctor Who’s earliest years shockingly does not exist anymore. Doctor Who is one of the BBC’s biggest revenue raisers, and most famous show around the world. However it was not always the case.
When Doctor Who first began in 1963, the idea of keeping media was not really considered. Home video did not exist, and would not exist for two decades. Repeats were rare, due to the costs at the time to store old material and pay people involved in them. Also, old film presented a fire hazard. So it was often disposed of.
Despite this, Doctor Who is fairly lucky compared to other series. Firstly, fans at the time recorded the audio of each story. This means even the first ever Christmas Special – “A Feast of Stephen,” never broadcast internationally or repeated, still exists as an audio.
Doctor Who is also lucky because of only six seasons are not complete. In addition, of those six seasons, only half are missing only episodes from one or two stories. This allows us to get a feel for the early years of Doctor Who in a way fans of other series, like “Quatermass” and “The Avengers” aren’t able to. And part of the reason most of these early seasons survive is due to Ian Levine.
Who is Ian Levine?
Ian Levine professionally is a songwriter and DJ. He has written and produced records connected to such bands as Take That, Pet Shop Boys, Bananarama and Bucks Fizz. His total sales exceed 40 million records.
He is also well known as a prominent Doctor Who fan. There are many prominent Doctor Who fans. The series from 2004 onwards has been largely made by prominent Doctor Who fans of the 70’s and 80’s. Many of these fans contribute to Doctor Who in official ways. For instance, many older fans have written books, or audio plays. All three showrunners for the modern series would be considered prominent fans from the nineties. For Ian Levine, his main contribution is seeking to find and restore missing episodes of Doctor Who.
This work started in 1978 where Levine reportedly requested the permanent halting of old episodes of Doctor Who. At the time the idea of home video was being considered, leading to more reasons to keep old film. Levine also claimed to have rescued the first ever Dalek story from being sent into a furnace. Following this, he began purchasing private copies of the remaining stories, and attempting to return them to the BBC.
He also connected with the Doctor Who Production Team of the eighties in other ways. This included composing the theme tune for the spin-off series “K-9 and Company”, and the protest/charity album “Doctor In Distress.” His was also consulted about continuity during seasons eighteen to twenty-two.
However, he also gained a notorious reputation as obsessive in an unappealing way. During the 1985 Doctor Who hiatus, Levine was encouraged by Producer Jon Nathan-Turner to use protest the decision. Levine argued against the decision on television, and smashed his television with a hammer, and inviting newspapers to photograph it.
So he is fan who has both done great things, but also sought notoriety and negative attention.
More recently, Levene has worked with animating missing or incomplete episodes. This started in 2010 with “Mission to the Unknown.” This was not allowed to be shared or sold due to it being made without BBC authorization. In 2013, Ian hired an animated reconstruction of the unfinished story “Shada.” This version used pre-existing footage and new audio to create a finished product he hoped could be licensed. However, the BBC chose not to. Instead they made their own animated version that was released four years later.
- Join the Doctor (Tom Baker), Romana (Lalla Ward), and K-9 (voiced by David Brierley) as a visit to a Time Lord living incognito on Earth leads to a desperate race to a distant prison planet
- A BBC strike halted filming of this never-broadcast Baker six-episode serial written by “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” author Douglas Adams
- Christopher Neame, Victoria Burgoyne co-star
Last update on 2025-03-16 / Affiliate links / Images from Amazon Product Advertising API
Subsequently, Levine made comments regarding Jodie Whittaker as the first female Doctor which were deemed by many to be sexist. Levine responded by publicly quitting the fandom, though later created his own private Doctor Who Facebook group.
This group has now become the location where his AI recreations he has funded and received donations for are shared.
The Doctor Who AI Reconstructions – How to Access
The Facebook Page: “Ian Levine’s Facebook Group” requires an agreement to two questions to join. Firstly, you must agree to respect the right to criticize Jodie Whittaker. Secondly, you must recognise this is Ian Levine’s group for sharing his opinions on Doctor Who. Agree to all this, and you’re allowed in.
Inside the group, Levine has shared around twenty videos. This includesall of “The Dalek Masterplan,” “The Massacre,” and “The Savages.” However for the remainder, you must make a donation of fifty pounds, to become a contributor to the series.
Once your donation is confirmed, you are authorized to join the separate contributors group, for contributors only. This is where all the current videos being made are released.
Except…. None of these videos are unavailable privately. Ian Levine has placed them all on Youtube. They are unlisted, so they cannot turn up in either a Google or YouTube search. However, if you have a direct link or URL to them, they are accessible to everyone. Unlike other systems like Patreon which restrict content to only certain subscribers, nothing stops these links being shared elsewhere.
And of course, these links are shared. In response, Levine has issued threats and warnings against other Facebook groups and leakers trying to destroy his vision. In his group, people support him and join in denouncing those who criticize his work or mock it. People outside the group in response denounce Ian Levine and his supporters.
One thing I hate about internet culture is the push for tribalism. This is the idea we are joined in a selective tribe and must fight the rivals to connect. Over time the views become more strict in supporting your own tribe, and rejecting the opposition, and the middle ground is lost.
In the case of Ian Levine’s group, this is best shown by the view of alternative animations of missing Doctor Who stories. All of these are seen as not as good as Levine’s AI reconstructions. Levine’s reconstructions are seen as the only correct way Doctor Who is meant to be.
Initially Ian Levine’s AI project aimed to complete the ten missing stories not completed by the BBC. The initial project recognised the slow time it took to animate missing stories, and focused on stories that were difficult and costly to animate with people. Very soon after, however, Levine denounced many of the prior animations as “Silly Scooby Doo Cartoons.” The project was quickly extended to include stories previously animated by the BBC. Levine’s argument appears to be Levine’s objections to story changes animation had included. These included adding a surprise image of the Master in “Fury from the Deep”, prior to his debut appearance. Given Levine’s history of making things for the BBC, with the hope the BBC would license them, there have been rumours Levine initially was hoping the BBC would license some of his AI recreations, which has not come to pass.
Levine presents his animations as the most authentic way to view the missing episodes. Therefore appreciation of official animated reconstructions are not allowed. A poster saying they enjoyed the animated version of “The Celestial Toymaker,” was informed by Levine tht anyone who enjoyed the animation was unwelcome. Common responses of new animations being announced are people accusing the BBC of ruining another story. When Levine had a fault pointed out in one of his stories by Frazer Hines, who played the second Doctor’s companion, Jamie, Levine’s first response was to accept that the animation had limitations, but insisted it was still better than any animation the BBC has made. Most of all, posters all reinforce the message that AI reconstructions are the true version of the lost stories and the BBC are fools for not paying for them.
![Doctor Who - The Celestial Toymaker [DVD]](https://hauntedmtl.com/wp-content/plugins/aawp/public/image.php?url=YUhSMGNITTZMeTl0TG0xbFpHbGhMV0Z0WVhwdmJpNWpiMjB2YVcxaFoyVnpMMGt2T1RGUWVsZFROSEZ5V0V3dVgxTk1NVFV3TUY4dVgxTk1NVFl3WHk1cWNHYz18MTc0MzcwODUwOA=)
- The Celestial Toymaker sees the Doctor and his companions separated when they come up against the Toymaker
- While the Doctor plays the Trilogic Game, Steven and Dodo are forced to play their own seemingly childish, but ultimately dangerous games, with the aim of being reunited and getting back to the TARDIS
- Who will be the first to make a false move in this battle of wits, and will the TARDIS ever escape the Toymaker’s snare Fans of Doctor Who have long lamented the loss of the original 1966 master recordings of all except one of The Celestial Toymaker
Last update on 2025-03-16 / Affiliate links / Images from Amazon Product Advertising API
In response to this, or provoking this, depending on your point of you, external Facebook groups and YouTube channels are highly critical of the AI reconstructions. Some videos see them as threats, preventing the BBC from every investing in animation involving real people. Some hav dismissed the project as a scam.
So with such strong opinions on both sides, it’s time to actually watch them.
The AI Reconstructions
My first response on watching is they’re not that bad, but they’re not that good. Animation varies wildly in quality from story to story, making it hard to tell an overall trend towards or away from quality. However there are some good examples of how to recreate a story. “The Massacre” and “The Dalek Masterplan” for instance are incredible to watch. “The Savages” on the other hand is laughingly bad.
I chose to mostly focus on the stories not yet officially animated, so as to judge these stories by their own merit rather than compare to other animated versions of the same stories. However, it’s interesting the similarities that occur between the official animations and AI reconstructions. Non human characters (Particularly Daleks) look and move great, but people largely do not.
Animating People
Across most forms of Missing episode recovery, whether AI or human drawn, the difficulty is always animating people to show emotions and movement. Many of the official BBC animations often leave characters looking like stick figures bobbing up and down.
However one of the key things the official reconstructions provide is consistency. A human being develops a pre-existing model for characters, and because of this, these characters stay consistent over time.
AI on the other hand appears to forget things, or lose focus unless properly guided. People’s faces can change dramatically from shot to shot to the point, as in “The Savages” characters can be unrecognizable. This means, unlike with official animations, I often had to follow a story summary to figure out what was going on.
AI also forgets smaller things that make people seem human. In “The Highlanders” for instance the Doctor’s companion Polly does not blink for most of episode one, despite being in shot. This is a small detail, but throws the story into the uncanny valley – characters involve look like people but they feel wrong based on how they act.
Movement is a struggle for all reconstructions because human movement is difficult to animate. Once again, “The Massacre” demonstrates small examples of movement than seem fluid, particularly in the first episode. “The Savages” on the other hand has main characters seemingly to perform scissor jump spread legged when the script call on them to walk.
How the animation occurs
Having watched many of these animations, some of means AI generated these reconstructions became clearer. A lot of these animations, especially some of the later ones, do not actually generate much new material, instead using existing material in different ways. The First Doctor saying goodbye to Susan in the TARDIS, from Episode 6 of the Dalek Invasion of Earth, for instance is frequently re-used. This scene is redubbed multiple times in the reconstructions, when a missing story needs a scene of William Hartnell standing alone in the TARDIS.
Another method is using the telesnaps, and slightly animating the mouth and face. This creates a sense of fluidity and movement, but a very limited one. This is particularly noticeable in the Space Pirates. The resconstructions rely on switching between static photos of one cast member with mouths moving. On the one hand, this is no worse than the telesnaps, but the telesnaps were aware of their limitations, so often would use narration or subtitles to fill the gaps. However these reconstructions are presented as the most life like renditions of the missing episodes. As the original story did not have subtitles or narration, therefore, they are not allowed. As a result the story is incomprehensible.
Benefit – it exists
But despite the complaints, there is a significant benefit in these reconstructions. And that’s the fact that they exist.
Currently nine missing stories have not been officially animated by the BBC. I would love for all missing stories to be animated. However, the reality is most of the stories remaining might be too costly to animate.
Of the nine stories, six are pure historicals – stories with no science fiction elements apart from the TARDIS and its crew. These stories tended to have a larger number of human characters than stories with monsters, and a human being with their range of emotions is harder to animate than a Dalek.
Historicals also tend to have more detailed and complex scene change. A story in the future can replicate cold, grey corridors throughout a space colony. Historicals however must recreate significant locations in the world at particular times in history. Having to recreate 15th century France, for instance, is made up of multiple distinct locations. This makes historical stories more time consuming and therefore costly to animate. Therefore, despite stories being reanimated for almost twenty years now, the total number of historical episodes animated have been two – both missing episodes of the Reign of Terror.
For the remaining three stories, the limited human cast and isolated space station locations makes Wheel in Space relatively simple to animate. The Space Pirates, may also be animated as the story focusing mostly on space ships should make some aspects of the design easier to manage.
That just leaves The Dalek Masterplan¸ a massive twelve episode story, with a one episode prequel, where the Daleks chase the Doctor throughout time and space. The cast is huge, and while it is not a historical, the story would require animated sets of ancient Egypt during the building of the pyramids. None of this would be easy to do on the current BBC animation budget.
Therefore, it appears of the remaining nine missing stories, only two are highly likely to be animated.
And this is where AI can play a role. As AI does not rely much people, it means the costs to recreate a story like the Dalek Masterplan is significantly easier and cheaper than hiring a production studio to make it. While the end result is not as good as a professionally animated episode, for stories where hiring professional animations is not feasible, this is one way for people to observe a version of a story we otherwise cannot access.
Ultimately the frustrating thing about these reconstructions is they’re not allowed to be what they are. If they were simply an attempt to make otherwise lost stories more accessible, without any pretention or idea of superiority they would be fine. There are no shortages of fan made reconstructions, which vary in quality, but are all warmly received because they don’t pretend to be more than fan made animations. They are no better or worse than any other reconstructions.
If Levine’s reconstructions were presented with the same humbleness, the response would be more positive. If Leveine would present it as a project, and be accepting of others not needing to accpet them, there would be less retaliation online. But they aren’t presented as a fun way to view a loss episode. The reconstructions are presented as the only correct way to view the stories, superior than any other effort. In fact, he considers the stories no longer lost due to his AI reconstructions.
But by doing so, he puts the reconstructions on a pedestal of perfection. But they aren’t perfect, not by a long shot. By Leveine presenting these as perfect, he ultimately encourages people to notice how they are lacking by comparing to perfection. In comparison, more humble attempts of reconstruction, by presenting themselves as not the best, encourage people to notice what they do right.
So, try to enjoy the reconstructions for what they are. Some are surprisingly good – especially The Dalek Masterplan and The Massacre, and it’s a chance to see stories animated that you may not get to see animated elsewhere. But try to filter out all the rhetoric about how amazing and perfect they should be, and just enjoy them as they are.
(2 / 5)
